The Remote CEO Life Podcast

Does Neurodivergence Define Your Success In Entrepreneurship? With Hannah Whitfield

• Sophie Biggerstaff • Season 3 • Episode 20

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Can being neurodivergent actually help you succeed in entrepreneurship?

In this episode of The Remote CEO Life Podcast, I’m joined by Hannah Whitfield - a creative activist, performer, and host of the No Longer Legally Detained podcast - to talk about what success really means when you’re neurodivergent and building a business.

Hannah shares how her ADHD and autism diagnoses have shaped her journey, how medication and creativity supported her healing, and why self-awareness has been the biggest key to both personal and entrepreneurial growth.

We talk about:

  • What it’s really like to run a business while being neurodivergent
  • Using self-awareness and structure to support mental health
  • Redefining success and purpose through lived experience
  • Peer support, boundaries and embracing your unique brain

If you’ve ever felt like you don’t fit the traditional model of success, this episode will show you how neurodivergence can actually be your superpower in business.

Connect with Hannah Whitfield:

📱Instagram & TikTok: @legallydetained

🔗 LinkedIn: Hannah Whitfield

About The Remote CEO Podcast:

This podcast is for freedom-seeking online entrepreneurs, offering practical, actionable advice to help you step up into your new role as CEO by building an online business that works for you - not one you work for.

Hosted by Sophie Biggerstaff, an online business mentor, e-commerce founder, mental health advocate, and full-time digital nomad. 🙋‍♀️

👆Want to start an online business? Take my quiz to help you get started

👆 Want to achieve more freedom in your life? Find out how you can make it happen in my free masterclass.

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Sophie (00:01)
Hello and welcome back to the Remote CEO podcast. Today I am joined by Hannah Whitfield, who is a creative activist passionate about using art and self-expression to advocate for mental health, neurodivergence and social justice. Hannah is the host of the No Longer Legally Detained podcast, where she shares her journey of overcoming trauma and using creativity to fuel charge, all whilst aiming to create a world of true inclusivity and support for those whose voices are most unheard.

As you probably know, mental health is a hot topic for me and very close to my heart as well. So I'm very excited to have this conversation with Hannah today to share some practical advice around prioritizing mental health whilst running a business. So welcome Hannah. Thank you so much for joining me. I've heard a bit about your personal story from your website and I've found it very inspirational to read, but do you want to share it in a little bit more detail?

Hannah (00:50)
Yeah, no. So hello. Thank you for having me. my name is Hannah and I am a creative activist. If I was going to label it as one of those things, think as you like, go through, when you like choose like a kind of like a, I kind of fell into this career. And it was like, when people asked me like, what do you do? I was like, I don't really know, like, to call it. So I kind of labeled it creative activism. I probably like, is actually a term already. But like, I like to think that like, you know, it's a quite innovative career. ⁓ But yeah, so I

Sophie (01:14)
you

Hannah (01:16)
I'm currently living in Northland and I actually moved down here not too long ago, only about six months ago. And I've had quite a tricky journey, quite like a challenging kind of journey in life, but it's one that really pushes me and inspires me to make change and be part of creating a better and more equal and fair world. I am currently at uni at the same time. I'm a mature student, which is hilarious, at 24 that like...

You're counted as a mature student, but I had to leave school when I was 16 and due to my mental health and I spent five years in and out of psychiatric inpatient units and before I was diagnosed as autistic. And then when I was kind of first diagnosed as autistic, I actually was a bit like, I don't really relate to this. don't feel like I am autistic. My sibling who was assigned male at birth was diagnosed much younger because that kind of classic like male presentation.

And therefore that's what I kind of thought of. had my own like internalised ableism and internalised misconceptions of like what being autistic meant. And so when I was first diagnosed, I was a bit like, I don't really sure like, this me? I actually then like went to a few kind of autism groups and again, still felt like I just didn't fit in and kind of my mental health was still kind of really struggling because I just hadn't found like any sense of belonging or like identity.

It was only kind of as we went through and I actually like got a purpose and that's something I'm sure we'll talk about later on like really, really helped like in my kind of mental health recovery. And then I was diagnosed with ADHD and I started medication and I know obviously that's can be quite controversial topic. And obviously it's very personal and individual to each person. But for me, the medication was life-saving and really did absolutely change my life. was almost, it was literally like I like

I was like ripped open and I could see inside myself and like be able to be so honest. And so like, I can't even think of the word, like, like when you can just like really analyze yourself, I guess. And it was just through that, like, yeah, that I could just suddenly go, my, like, see my flaws, but not in a way that in the past would have been like so detrimental that I was like, my gosh, I can't be alive because like I'm such a bad human being. It was like, I could use them and then like learn who I was and how.

Sophie (03:16)
Yeah, self-awareness is heightened.

Hannah (03:33)
Like my brain worked and obviously, you know, nothing ever, ever happens overnight. But the progress that I made in the past year and a half since being on that medication is like hugely different to where I was. And I get to now combine like my two favorite things of like all things creative. am like, I am the classic like ADHD having so many hobbies. Like it's a bit much. But also like the activism, which is what I started in 2020. And again, was such a massive.

reason why I was able to recover. And yeah, now I get to kind of do lots of like crazy things that I never have thought I'd have been able to do. I'm like becoming a person that hopefully the little version of me kind of needed and also the little version we would never have imagined was possible. And I think that's something that I'm so passionate about like with authenticity and like being who you are and the fact that like, just because you're one person kind of growing up doesn't mean that you're like...

defined by that forever.

Sophie (04:31)
Absolutely. mean, actually, I think we're constantly changing. If there's anything that's constant in life, is change, right? And I say that all the time. But actually, we're never really one version of ourselves. We're constantly evolving. And I love what you said there, that the medication allowed you to see.

more clearly like inside of you and understand yourself better and gain that self awareness because actually without that self awareness, which if you aren't on medication, if your, if your brain is neurodivergent and you're not, you're unable to quite identify exactly what the

the issues are that you're having, that can be really confusing and confronting and you don't really understand what's going on. just going back what you said like around medication being controversial, I think everyone just needs to do what they need to do. Like if that's something that's helping you, then that's great. Like you need to utilise that, right? Like everyone's going to have different opinions on that, but I think everyone should go off of what makes them feel the best. And it's so individual.

Hannah (05:18)
So.

Yeah, so individual, you can't like, think

something I talk a lot about when it comes to like diagnosis and stuff and that thing of like, it's so intersectional and actually we all, you know, that's whether that's a diagnosis or whether that's any kind of part of life. Although I am such a, I know I'm a really passionate advocate for peer support and like peer mentorship. I do think that that is such a massive kind of thing that needs to be like done and spoken about more. I think that it's not about.

what necessarily people do. It's about like that essence behind it. And actually that, you know, everyone's experiences are vastly different and we come from all the factors of our lives and like our genetic makeup and I'm like, whatever, feed into who we are as a person. therefore no one thing's gonna work for everybody. But I do think that, you know, hearing different ideas is so important because then you can hear them and then apply them in your own way to yourself and trial and error. And I think that that's like such a...

important like thing but also you know it's that thing we are all different and like just because something works for me doesn't mean it's going to work for somebody else and that's okay neither of us are invalid in either way of like it's just about learning like what works for you and like taking kind of it's a bit like I'm I'm a performing arts student and so like it's a bit like with acting technique like I feel like I how I kind of like develop my acting technique is by like taking all these different techniques from different people and different practitioners

and then applying it to making my own technique, which is the one that works for me because I am me. And I think that's kind of something how I take in like lots of aspects of life.

Sophie (06:55)
For sure. And going back to specifically for experimental health, there is no one way or right way to help yourself or heal yourself, whatever terminology you want to use. There's no one size fits all approach to it. Everyone's got different challenges and everyone is going to have different solutions for those challenges. So I think it's really important to recognize exactly what you said, not what works for you, what works for me, it's going to work for absolutely everybody. Everyone's going to resonate with different things.

Hannah (07:02)
Yeah.

Sophie (07:25)
day, like understanding what works for other people can give you little snippets of inspiration and expansion into what could be possible for you. So I think that that's really, really amazing that you're able to kind of advocate for that peer support. I read on your website that you felt quite

let down and failed by the system because they didn't recognise your neurodivergence early on in your life. When you finally received that diagnosis, when you were looking back on everything, obviously you understood a lot more, but what was that feeling like to understand, well, I could have received this support, this medication way earlier on and you wouldn't have had to experience some of the things that you experienced?

Hannah (08:04)
I think for me, like it's really, it's really tricky. like, actually it's been interesting, like more recently I've been kind of more acutely aware of like, and I think like, know having like, obviously I speak to a lot of different people who are like neurodivergent. And I think that for me, like I also experienced quite a lot of childhood trauma. And therefore I do think that that played a massive part of like kind of my journey and like looking back, I find it really hard to, I can't disentangle the two things.

So therefore for me, I know that like, although if I had a neurodivergent diagnosis on paper, that would have made a difference. I'm not sure. Like obviously when you kind of live in like tricky circumstances, like it's tricky to know, like I don't know whether how that would have worked if you get me. It's like, not very helpful answer necessarily, but I do think that kind of as I grew up and like when I got to kind of like my teenage years, like late teenage when I kind of.

completely had my kind of big breakdown, which led to my kind of five years in and out of hospital. I do think that by knowing that I wasn't broken and wasn't like those things, that I do think it would have helped because I think knowing who you are and knowing why you are the way you are is always gonna be useful. And I think obviously like experiencing childhood trauma means...

for me that like there was gonna still be those things because unfortunately I wasn't always in a very like healthy environment. But I do think that absolutely it would have made a difference. And I do think that like interestingly kind of having worked in like schools and stuff, there can actually be such a fear of like giving your child like a label. And absolutely like I do think that, you know, we don't want to be labeling willy nilly. I, you for me, are you label as, know, a label as.

an explanation as an understanding, it's not an excuse, know, none of those things. But actually growing up, there's one of my favorite quotes, like growing, it says something like, your child can grow up, knowing they're autistic or grow up thinking that they're broken, like can't do things. They still have the same struggles, the label doesn't change the struggles, it doesn't make it worse, doesn't make it better in terms of like how you present. But it does give you that understanding. And I think that knowledge is power. And if you know why,

doesn't does not mean that you do not struggle your autism doesn't go away or doesn't get worse it just is but having that knowledge of knowing why knowing that even in the you know and i like now like there are still times when things are so hard and i'm like why this but even in those moments like afterwards i can reflect and go you are autistic and that's why that has been hard or your odhd that is why you cannot organize yourself for like

nothing but and although it's still just as annoying in the moment you can look back and go right well come on like you know that that is the thing and then you can kind of it is an explanation to yourself and i think that like the you know the statistics of like neurodivergent people and like kind of how the impact on their mental health and just like i can't i don't know the statistic off by heart but it's like how many negative like words

young person with ADHD has heard before the age of like 10 is just like a feral and then you people wonder why like when you get to 16 like early like young adulthood why the mental health statistics are so bad but if you've only ever been told you know really negative things what do you expect like it's that thing of like we do it is that thing of like knowledge i do think like my my mum says it like knowledge is power like when you know doesn't change the the core factor it does change how you view it

Sophie (11:41)
Yeah, I completely agree with you. think knowledge is absolutely power. The more that you can understand yourself, better that you can. And like you said, you're not trying to justify the things that are happening. It's more like understand why they're happening and then you can put your own practices and coping mechanisms in place to help.

alleviate, it's never going to go away completely, but alleviate some of the things or structure your day better or structure week, month, whatever works for you in a different way to work better for how your brain is operating. And I mean, when you were younger, and you were going through some of these like, challenges when you were in and out of hospital, like, did you think about like, what career potentially you were going to go into? Or was that like, not even like a thought on your mind at that time?

Hannah (12:15)
Yeah.

So I was,

I am the classic, you know, academic burnout. I was a perfectionist and a very much like binary view of like what success was and what academic, like what academic, like would the be all an end or like I, like a GCSE, I took triple science. I did 11 GCSEs. My A-levels that I picked, I didn't ever get them but with biology, chemistry, math, psychology.

my goal was to do medicine or like paramedicine. That was kind of where I wanted to go. Like it was, was so head up on this idea of like success and that like this so very like academic heavy. Interestingly, I didn't do GCSE drama. I didn't do GCSE music. I didn't do GCSE art. I wasn't a creative person. think, you know, my, I think the school that I went to, they didn't even know who I was.

they definitely would never have labelled me as a creative person, I was very introverted, I literally didn't say anything. My mum would go to parents' evening and this was when you didn't always go to parents' evening, like my school, you only started going to parents' evening when you were in year 11 I think, so my mum would go and they would literally be looking at her and she'd be like, Hannah Whitfield, and they'd be like, yeah, she's good, I have no idea who I was, like literally nothing.

which is kind of complete opposite of when I kind of had my breakdown at 16 and where I was like in school was literally like lost a plot basically in my year, my first like beginning of my year of my A levels and kind of it all went to pot. during my kind of initially I was in CAMS for the first year I spent a year in CAMS, four different CAMS units. And when you're in like adolescent hospital, like they tried to keep up with your education. So they did try to like, and I did...

I was doing a bit of A-level math, so that was really quite fair because I was so poor that it wasn't really working. When I kind of turned 18 and was moved to adult services, it was like the end of, would have been the end of, because I'm a summer birthday, so it would have been the end of like the school year. And all of my peers obviously like got their A-level results and I'm going off to uni. And I was like, I'm gonna start college and do a, what's it access to healthcare. And I started that access to healthcare, I would say like for...

I think for five years pretty much like every September I would start like, no, I'm gonna do it. would literally sometimes I wouldn't even get to the first day of college. Sometimes I would like do a week and then like drop out. Still in and out of hospital. And I was still like, just I remember I would always be Googling like how to get into medicine. Like how can you get into medicine if you don't have A levels? And when in 2020, I kind of, started my activism like work but I also got a job at my mom's school.

and I started working as a teaching assistant and then as a specialist teaching assistant and I did my level three TA qualification. And still though, still the goal was some kind of healthcare career. And I also did love creativity and drama. And like I did a bit of panto when I was much younger and I joined an amateur, well actually I joined a dance school and they definitely hold like such a special place in my heart.

I also joined an amateur dramatic group in a musical theater. And sadly that was actually a really, really negative experience. However, it did fuel kind of more of my activism work. And yeah, and then kind of, don't know how exactly, but I transitioned into, I applied for drama school and really randomly in the summer, I sent a self tape to a drama school. Like I didn't realize the whole drama school world. Like I was so naive to like the whole thing, but I got in.

which was just like looking back now, like all the people who I was with who like, it was just kind of feral. And then I went to drama school last year and let myself into the idea that actually this is what I love. And now I'm doing a degree in inclusive performance and creativity in performing arts. And it is where my heart is. And it is actually, I'm good at it. Like I'm quite a creative person which I never would have labeled myself.

And I love it and I love learning and I love every part of it. And actually this is where my heart is set. And I'm so, feel so much like better because I'm not forcing myself into something that I actually don't want to do.

Sophie (16:47)
for sure, like that's always going to feel so much nicer for you. And it's interesting to hear that your version of success kind of went from like this academic, I have to hit all of the grades and go to university to do the medical career and like fit into like what I would say is like a kind of stereotypical version of success. And then you've shifted and been like, well, actually, this is where my passion is. And this is where I'm thriving and excelling. And this is actually what success looks like for me now. in your...

right now like what does success look like for you?

Hannah (17:20)
I think when I think of success, it's always been such a tricky thing. I think as being someone who I also struggle with an eating disorder a lot, I think that that is something that I'm always been such a perfectionist and very much. But I would say for me now, success, I mean, I have different versions, but I think the main thing I would say is...

is leaving the world a bit of a better place. I think that that thing of like, I, success is like, it looks like me still being here. I think that that's a massive success after like what I went through. And I am someone who's, I find it really hard to like praise myself and like, I can like find it like, I kind of say it, but don't necessarily always feel it. But I do think that like, it's been a success that I am here, that I've actually like defied all of the odds of like what.

people told thought that I would ever be able to achieve. And I think like now I look at success as being not being happy because I do have like a whole lot of that thing of like being able to ride the wave of life and it be tolerable. And I think that although that sounds like a really bizarre like that's quite a low bar, but actually I believe that like, I think that that is that like autistic thing of like black and white thinking and people being like, you know, getting happiness and obviously like.

They say that, you it's a journey, not a destination, but that was kind of something that I think I definitely did like struggle with that kind of concept. And what I've like learned is that it's always going to be up and down and not just like up and down. It's going to have like moments of horrific, even in the good times. And actually what life is about is about basically being able to ride the wave. And like, I think for me, success looks like they're being

through the challenges of life, there being those moments where you do go, this is all right, actually. Like they can be just such like small little moments. And, know, even I view those probably actually as even bigger successes than the kind of like, opportunities that I get, which are amazing. And like, obviously, that is great. And I do love that. And I like, you know,

love being when I get to be on stage or when I get to do a talk when I get to go somewhere like that's so cool but actually the success for me is that moment of where like I actually think life's worth living and that kind of sounds really like but I do think that thing of like when we we kind of we are like in that like societal like pressure to like success it has to be all those big things but actually the moments that I've probably felt the most like

genuinely like as close to happy as probably I've ever felt is like those quiet moments like with a friend or just like chatting and just like, you know, or doing my, you know, bullet journal and listening to like my favourite musical theatre song. And like those are when I think actually, you know, the Hannah who was stuck in horrible places when she was little and like was so scared or the Hannah who was in hospital and who genuinely spent every waking moment trying to either lose weight or to try and end her life like.

she could see now that actually, no, it's not perfect, but she's able to do all of these amazing things and actually, you know, that those are the moments of success. So think that's for me, like that is kind of probably a really like roundabout answer.

Sophie (20:47)
No, I think that's beautiful to say that because actually, we consider as a society success to be combined with material objects or like, I don't know, the guy that's got the Ferrari, the one that's got the beautiful big house, like they're the things that like our society, movies, TV shows have taught us are what success looks like. But actually, and I've realized this through my own personal journey as well, the success.

that you have is actually just waking up feeling fucking happy or like finding moments of happiness during your day or feeling peace and calm even in like a chaotic environment because we can, yeah, we can all create that if we really want to, we can all actually create that wealth, that version of success, that material version of success for ourselves, but not many people.

can create that like calming the chaos in their minds, I believe. it's all like going back to what you said earlier, like it all really does start with that self-awareness, that understanding and being able to understand why you're experiencing the things that you're experiencing and then shifting your habits, your behaviors, of the beliefs that you have about yourself into something that feels more positive. And I had a very similar experience actually, like I have a very, very busy brain. Like I always have done my whole life, it's been like a million and one thoughts going around at any moment in time.

a couple of years ago, I now live in Thailand, but a couple of years ago I was in Thailand and I went to a Muay Thai camp. And for the first time, I was in such a structured regimented routine that I hadn't really had ever before in my life of them when I was at school. And I felt so good about myself. I was working out twice a day. I was doing work in between. I remember my brain just suddenly switched off and I was like, is what happened?

Hannah (22:30)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Sophie (22:33)
Mer, what is this?

Like, I've never experienced this peace, this quiet. And I remember really thinking, going back to what you said about like, just finding those like really small, joyful moments being like, oh, it's actually okay. I remember that was one of the first times, this is only two years ago, was 31. Like, I, it's actually quite late into my life to be thinking like that, like the first moment. And I was like, wow, this is what a...

quiet brain feels like that is amazing. That is actually a version of success. I've created that for myself from this routine I've been able to build. So I completely get that. And I think everything that I now do with my business is to help people create a business that works for them. Because a lot of people create businesses just to have that material version of success. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like you can aim for that, but equally, don't you want to go out and enjoy your life? Don't you want to be happy whilst you're doing the thing? So I think in itself that those moments.

Hannah (23:21)
Yeah.

Sophie (23:25)
are actually what I would describe as freedom because you are free from like that chaotic spiral of thoughts that you've got going on in your head. Even if you just have like little glimmers in the day, little glimmers in your week, you are experiencing a level of freedom that maybe somebody else cannot achieve. So I think that's a really nice way to describe it. love it.

Hannah (23:31)
Mm.

Yeah.

And

I think we have so much input and that is something that I was speaking to like, and I think that is that thing of like, we do live in a time where like we do have so much input and that's, you know, not to like sound like a grandma and be like, but it is true. like we humans aren't made to have that much input. And I think like having those moments of like being able to stop really do allow you to like reflect and come back. And I think like looking about that thing about success, like it just, that kind of triggered in my brain like.

I think for me, a sign of success, a really big thing that I still work towards is that I think that kind of feeling of belonging and I think that's something that's so important. And I do think that that is, and that's those moments of when I look and I felt the happiest have been those moments where I feel like I really belong. And I think that when we think about mental wellbeing and all of that stuff, absolutely, we can all say that we all know that like,

money does bring a certain level of like, happiness because absolutely like we live in a really tricky financial time, know, and I'm like, it's very, very, very challenging. And so absolutely like, you know, no one's gonna sit here and say, you know, it does absolutely give you a certain level, but I do think, you know, a really big marker, like of success should be looking at that, belonging and feeling like you have somewhere and that doesn't.

And that is something that like isn't financially like something that you can like compare with. It's like that feeling of belonging, whether that be with family, friends, a group, work, whatever it is, that place where you just feel kind of safe. think that's such an important like thing to work towards because actually, you and that will change and that won't necessarily be the same place all of your life because as you grow and as other people grow, you will grow in different directions. But like having...

those places I think is something that I've learned is just so important.

Sophie (25:36)
Yeah, 100 million percent agree with everything you said. ⁓ And earlier on, you mentioned some of the opportunities that have come out of the back of the work that you've been doing, things that you speak about. So can you tell us a little bit more about the projects that you've been working on?

Hannah (25:40)
You

Yeah, so it's it's such a bizarre thing. Like I, I'm in a career like I never thought I would be in and obviously I'm still at uni. And so I'm kind of still studying. So I'm not like working full time. And I've no idea like where I'm going to ultimately end up. I kind of started in 2020, I joined mind the charity in the UK on their youth voice advisory panel for their 2021 to 2024 strategy. And that was the start of my activism journey, I guess at the time I didn't

think I was an activist. didn't think I was like an advocate for anything. Like I just was passionate. I was cross about like the mistreatment that I'd experienced and kind of just went also I got a voucher for taking part. So like what more can you want in life? Like when you've got no money and it was kind of from there that like I basically just slowly snowballed and snowballed and snowballed into like kind of where I am now.

And I don't even know really where I am now. Like it's very chaotic. I do live the whole, and it's a overwhelming sometimes. And like at the moment I'm trying to like rein it in, in terms of like working out what I'm doing and where I'm doing it. But I've since worked, I worked with over 25 organizations in the UK in relation to like mental health, neurodivergence, social justice, all of social action. And yeah, I've had the opportunity to do so many like crazy and wild things.

I am on the Youth Board for the Mighty Creatives, which is a charity based in Leicester, but it's actually like becoming a bit more nationwide. that was like my first time I went on a podcast was their Youth Board podcast. We did an event for young people in like creative careers. I've got my own podcast and my kind of that is like a metaphor from when I was in hospital, I really like wanted to start a blog, but I didn't really know what to call it. And I was actually on the Psychiatric Intensive Care Unit up North.

And I was like telling this other patient and she was really poorly as well. I was obviously really poorly, we were on a PQ and the only name I could think of was legally detained. We were both sectioned at the time. And obviously both of us in our poorly state were like, yes, that's the best name you could ever think of for anything. And that's what I went with and it kind of is stuck. And then when I kind of, this time last year, I really wanted to start a podcast and I was like, you know what?

Sophie (27:52)
Good, I love it, yeah.

Hannah (27:59)
no longer legally detained is the metaphor of like my growth journey and yeah so that's kind of where that came from. I've actually got the opportunity I'm going to the European Youth event in the the summer this year with the European Youth Parliament which is the first time that I'm well I've not been abroad for a very long time and it's my first like time I'm taking my kind of work international so that's really exciting and I did I'm as I said I'm a performing arts student so I

Sophie (28:22)
Amazing.

Hannah (28:27)
did a, a cricketer show called the rule book to society, which is a one woman musical. And I'm now actually developing that further. It's actually developed into two different separate musicals. And hopefully I will be able to put both of them on. And they've actually no longer just me. It's like different people as well. I've got the opportunity to do public speaking workshops, kind of going in training different organizations, sharing my story and probably my favorite and the best part, the things I get to do.

is kind of within the peer support mentoring space of like kind of talking to young people and, you know, supporting them on their journey. And I think that that's definitely the best part of anything I ever get to do.

Sophie (29:09)
Yeah, supporting other people who have just gone through very similar things to you, I can imagine that's like the most rewarding, rewarding part of it, right? What sounds like you're very busy. You've got a lot going on. How do you manage all of those things alongside managing your own mental health at the same time?

Hannah (29:25)
So, I mean, I don't do it perfectly, I'll be totally honest. And we're still like definitely in the stages of like discovering how we balance it and how we work. To begin with, like, and it was definitely, and I'm really glad that I did. Like I used to say yes to absolutely everything and I'm really, really glad I did. First of all, because.

I was doing nothing to begin with. actually having a purpose was the biggest like first kick in my mental health journey because, know, that is something, you know, with the mental health system, you know, in the UK, like with obviously they're, you know, we, know there's problems and there's issues, you know, we're going to that we'll be here all day, but, you know, with one big thing of like people who are hospitalized, you get discharged and then there is nothing like there is no

or there is like, you know, weekly appointments, but there is nothing that necessarily supports you to make a life worth living. And I think that's the thing of like, I'm so passionate about purpose. And for me, I needed a purpose. And so to begin with, that was all these opportunities. And I would say yes to everything and kind of was all over the place. Then I obviously was working and then it kind of got a bit harder. I was constantly double booking myself. Like it was just feral, burning myself out. And...

Now it's interesting because I'm someone who, if I'm not doing anything, like if I don't have anything booked into my diary, it is bad. I get really, really like, I actually become really quite poorly, which is what I've had the past couple of months actually, because I wasn't in uni for a couple of different reasons. And I had nothing like a big block of time not structured actually really doesn't work for me. So I'm like just...

For me, it's like a process of learning who you are and just being really honest. And I know that I'm not someone who can do nothing. I really can't do nothing. I'm better working seven days a week, but I also need a break. And I think it's just like, I haven't definitely haven't got it perfect yet, by no stretch of the imagination. But I do think that it's just about being able to be really honest and not be influenced by what other people are telling you. And I think there's a lot of things that people are telling you.

used to tell me like, need to stop, you need to slow down. And I would be like, get really frustrated, but not be able to articulate to them why that was so frustrating. And absolutely, you can't work and you can't and you shouldn't work 24 seven. Like that is not a healthy relationship, but it's about making whatever works for you. And like for me with my ADHD brain, what a normal kind of work life balance might look like, isn't actually what works for me, but.

I then equally still need to make sure that I'm looking after myself. And I think what I'm learning is kind of what things actually refill my battery. And I still don't know all of the ways, and I still find it quite hard because I think for me, just lying and doing nothing doesn't actually refill my battery. And it's about finding those different things and working out that balance between not burning out, but not having nothing to do.

But now I am so much better at saying no, I say no quite a lot actually now, which was like something that I never thought I'd be able to do. But I think that because I said yes at the beginning, it was important because it let me try lots of different things. And I think that is something that like as young people, when we like leave school, we've only ever like done one thing. And actually it's by trying so many different things that you learn, I really like that. Or I like that aspect of that. But actually I really hate that.

Sophie (32:49)
Obviously you mentioned that you set yourself really solid boundaries now, which is amazing. I didn't learn how to set boundaries till I was 30 years old. So it's amazing that you're 24 and you've got all of these boundaries in place. I love that for you because that's going to make your life so much easier. ⁓

Hannah (32:55)
Yeah.

Yeah, it's tricky. don't

get me wrong. Like it is so hard and like you have to be like I still definitely haven't got it like all the time and I definitely sometimes but like it is is that thing of like saying no to people and like just being like actually unlike for so long I was always the first person to reply I would always like insist but then actually like first of all like other people don't necessarily do that and actually I was making myself like quite like stressed and unwell and although like

The thought of being in trouble is my biggest fear. And it is interesting how the amount of people who you'll say things like, they'll be like, oh my gosh, you need to have a break. You need to have a break. And then when you have a break and they're like, why didn't you reply? And you think, sorry, like, sorry? But you have to learn both to sit with that and be able to be like, you know what, actually, with all respect, I am allowed to have a break and therefore actually, and those things and like.

Sophie (33:47)
Yeah.

Hannah (34:01)
Although you does lead to some uncomfortable conversations sometimes on the whole people are really supportive and like when they realize that like, you know, they think that thing of like, we're all just busy and like sometimes, you know, an email can be sent and then people don't actually think like what they've said. But I would say that like, I'm definitely still working on like exactly what kind of, and that's kind of something that I'm going to be like doing more of on my like socials and stuff like how I'm going to do it. But like I have, I do have the Finch app, which

bizarre, like that really has made a massive difference. And I was always like, I would never get it. And I got a free trial and I tried it. It was like, yeah, it's good, but like, I'm not gonna pay for it. And then I like was in such a slump and I did get it. And actually like, it has just helped with some of those bare like minimum tasks. And I think that like being neurodivergent for me, like just that living daily is such like a massive like spoon taker that actually that's before you add in all of those other things.

And I think it is just that like for me being like really mindful and aware and also having those breaks. Like last week I did just take a break and I actually like when we went, we actually went away and was lucky to go have a couple of days away and like literally turn off, switch off. And like that did definitely help. I'm actually now having counseling again which I like never had never worked for me. And I was in the mental health services for 10 years but actually like.

a very different approach that I'm taking this time. I think that like, I am so self aware, that has definitely helped within that, of like just a place to just to dump. I do a lot of journaling and like bullet journaling, junk journaling, like art journaling, all of that kind of thing of like just being able to like creative, creative outlets. And I think like something that I really like recently trying, which AK like yesterday is I, you know, I've always like been quite fearful and like away from like AI and like.

that kind of thing, but I have, I put in a lot of like my to-do list and like my thing and like that actually having chat, like chat GPT untangle my brain for me and like was actually so helpful. And I was like, you know what? Like you can't beat him, join him kind of vibe of like, actually there are these tools and actually, you know what? It's not a sign of weakness to give, like you're not giving in actually like.

Sophie (36:10)
Hahaha

Hannah (36:19)
I could spend three weeks untangling my brain. Like I was what I've been trying to do for the past three months and not got anywhere. Or I could ask an AI bot to untangle it for me. And when I read through it, obviously there were bits that like, I was like, yeah, that works. But, you know, the way I'd asked it was to make like, didn't, but it actually did like, was like, oh, you know, that just was easier. And I think that thing of like, utilizing the tools are around you and kind of not being scared to ask for help is like the biggest.

kind of thing that I found like, it's not, you know, I think from growing up in a, where like that was kind of viewed not in a very positive light. And I think then experiencing really negative, like things from like mental health services, know, like even like I was like neglected and abused by mental health services and like gas lit very badly. And to then, then like, I just ask for help in any kind of life can feel really scary, but actually.

we're not, we can't do things alone, but also actually in the same breath, you're way more capable than you think you can be. Like I never thought I'd be able to do anything. Whereas actually it's amazing what you can do and actually what really working out what actually matters. like in the grand scheme of things, we're all on this massive floating rock. like, although that can make you feel like really existential actually, and for me, like sometimes that can be really helpful. I think, know, ultimately in life like

Is it that deep? No, it's really not that deep and that is my my go-to phrase I have to like bring myself back to when i'm like spiraling into like a fear of like Existential like depression and anxiety and crisis I go ultimately is it that deep and you know, i'm not hurting anybody else So it you know, I can if I need to just take a moment. I can take a moment

Sophie (38:01)
Absolutely, I think it's really important. Your level of self-awareness is great because I think you really recognise when you need to take that break and when you need to do the things that you need to do. think that's the starting point for everybody that goes on their own mental health journey. I think it's even more important to recognise that if you are running some kind of business, if you are doing your own thing, freelance, doing stuff that you're doing, juggling so many different things all at once, which most entrepreneurs...

do. I think it's so important to gain that self-awareness at some point and be able to figure out what actually is working for you because like we said at the beginning, not one way is going to work for everybody. It's going to be very unique to each individual person.

but I think it's amazing that you are able to just do that, like so unapologetically and just be like, right, this is, this is me, this is how I'm going to show up. This is, this is what I need. And I think more and more people should be like that. It's very authentic. And I think particularly as we move into, this more AI driven age, let's say, I think authenticity is going to be what really separates like people from finding a level of success, which is what we spoke about earlier. That's not material.

and also material at the same time, because I think people are starting to read through anything that isn't authentically human driven. And I think that people like yourself that will go very far because you are just showing up very unapologetically, very authentically and doing all the things that really work for you. And ultimately that's going to drive a better version of success for you than any other level of success on that societal basis would be for you.

Hannah (39:34)
100%. I think that this kind of career is perfect for neurodivergent people and people who've done with their mental health, as long as you're self-aware and you put your strategies in place, otherwise you will burn yourself out. But if you are able to be so self-aware, can really, it is so amazing to have that kind of autonomy. And I think, yeah, it's just about being honest with yourself.

Sophie (39:47)
show.

Absolutely.

And I think that that's that level of having that level of self awareness and being able to cater your to your own needs is the ultimate version of freedom. Like I always talk about being free and how like running an online business can give you generate you that freedom if you allow it to. But it will never give you freedom unless you have that in place as well. And I think that that's really, really important. Whatever starting point that you're on. I think that having that level of self awareness, having that autonomy and that authenticity.

Hannah (40:17)
Yeah.

Sophie (40:24)
is really what sets you free. So, cool as to you, because that's really amazing that you've figured it out at this point in your life. what, looking back at everything that you've done so far, like where do you see things going forward?

Hannah (40:38)
I mean, I have no idea. Like I think it's like I am that person. Like I used to have, again, like I said, like a very set and like I kind of learning that actually a lot of the best things are unexpected. But within that, still working towards, like I find it really hard to set goals that like there has to be external factors to like achieve. Cause I feel like that's something for me that just feels really out of control. But I think like...

I'm just excited to like actually start living and continue living like this kind of very, you know, this is like, think anyone who's like, you know, survived childhood trauma and like, you know, or been diagnosed like neurodivergent later on in life, like it is at the beginning of your life. And it's so exciting. I'm like, I think now that like I do, I never viewed myself as having a future. And I think that like,

to begin with the future was so scary. Whereas now it's like there's endless possibilities and like, who knows where, you know, where I'm going to end up and what I'm going to do. But, you know, my big thing is like, I want to always like remain centered to like my goals and values and things. And like, you know, being authentic and that is why, you know, don't want to like keep going towards and however that looks, you know, in whatever kind of career path that takes me. It's about, you know, remaining.

authentic and remaining like stuck to like what I really believe in and just like enjoying and seeing what happens and like working hard but also you know having fun and kind of just meeting new people and like having new experiences and like getting out of my comfort zone and crying and like sitting in the rubbish and all of those things that come with like being alive and I think that like yes it's really hard work life and there and you know a lot of the time that like I

You know, we at night and I think night for me is always the worst time and I sit there and it just feels like the whole world is coming in on me and like I just can't do it and I you know, and then no probably a lot of people can relate to that and that thing of like don't do anything in that time that is irreversible and actually go to sleep because in the morning it does all just feel that little bit lighter and actually you'll be so glad you woke up in the morning and like you've still got you know a whole day in front of you and like in those moments when it's really really really hard it might just be minute by minute.

but second by second and I definitely have those times where you have to literally set it second by second, but keep going because you just have no idea what is around the corner and what you can achieve. I think it's that thing of taking opportunities, taking new experiences, but also resting and just keeping a really open mind. And I think that's the biggest thing that I definitely...

want to like expand even further like having an open mind to like trying new things and seeing what happens.

Sophie (43:29)
Amazing. Well, that's very good advice for anyone listening, particularly if you are neurodivergent and running a business. So I really appreciate you sharing your story. It's very inspirational. want you to tell and I'm really happy that you've been able to work your way through all of these experiences that you've had and be able to come out the other side of it and be like, well, this is me. This is how I'm going to show up now. And this is the things that I'm really passionate about and make that into your career. So congratulations. That's super exciting for you. I'm excited to see where you go next.

Hannah (43:53)
Thank you.

Sophie (43:55)
Tell us if anyone wants to connect with you, how can people find you?

Hannah (43:59)
Yep, so my social media is at legally detained and so is my TikTok and then on LinkedIn, it's just my name. So yeah, that's the main places that I'm on.

Sophie (44:09)
Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story with us.