The Remote CEO Life Podcast

S310: Should YOU Start a Podcast for Your Business? with Anne Claessen

• Sophie Biggerstaff • Season 3 • Episode 10

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In this episode of the Remote CEO Podcast, I sit down with Anne Claessen, CEO of Cashflow Podcasting, to explore how podcasting can transform your business.

We discuss the evolution of podcasting, its impact on business growth, and the importance of building trust through long-form content.

Anne shares her journey from aspiring lawyer to successful podcast manager and agency owner, highlighting the challenges and rewards of the digital nomad lifestyle. We discuss strategic aspects of podcasting, including content planning, production quality, and the ideal frequency for episodes to foster audience engagement and trust.

Whether you're new to podcasting or looking to enhance your existing strategy, this conversation offers valuable insights into how to start a podcast, the benefits of podcasting for business, and best practices for podcast marketing.

Connect with Anne here:

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#Podcastinginbusiness #Podcasting #DigitalMarketing #ContentCreation #AudioContent #AudienceEngagement #PodcastingBenefits #Podcasting101 #ThoughtLeadership #HowToStartAPodcast #Branding #OnlineBusiness #PodcastingTutorial #HowToRecordAPodcast #StartingAPodcast #PodcastingEquipment #HowToMakeAPodcast #PodcastMarketing #BusinessPodcast #BusinessNetworking #BuildingCredibility

About The Remote CEO Podcast:

This podcast is for freedom-seeking online entrepreneurs, offering practical, actionable advice to help you step up into your new role as CEO by building an online business that works for you - not one you work for.

Hosted by Sophie Biggerstaff, an online business mentor, e-commerce founder, mental health advocate, and full-time digital nomad. 🙋‍♀️

👆Want to start an online business? Take my quiz to help you get started

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...

Sophie (00:00) Hello and welcome back to the remote CEO podcast. Today I have a guest, Anne, who is the CEO of Cashflow podcasting, the go-to podcast production company for business owners. Anne has helped launch and grow over 50 podcasts, turning them into lead generation marketing channels. She knows that podcasts should do more than just share great conversations. It should drive traffic.

boost sales and grow your business. So in this episode, we're to talk about how to create a podcast that not only connects with your audience, but also fuels your brand success. So welcome Anne. Thanks so much for joining me.

Anne (00:35) Yeah, thank you for having me, Sophie. I'm so excited to be here.

Sophie (00:37) I'm super excited. mean, I've got two podcasts, so I love podcasting. So this conversation is exciting for me as much as it will be for everybody else. And I'm no expert. I just enjoy talking. So podcasting made sense for me, but tell me a little bit more about you and your background and what led you down the route to get to where you are today.

Anne (00:56) Yeah, sure. So my educational background, I wanted to be a lawyer. So I went to law school. I also went to business school because I wanted to do mergers and acquisitions. So I went through that whole thing, got all my degrees, you know, including master's for both, like everything. And then at the end of that, after all those years of studying, I realized I don't want to be a lawyer.

Sophie (01:04) you

Anne (01:22) and I didn't know what, what I wanted to do. I didn't know like what, what is the alternative that does sound appealing to me. so as a true millennial, I sold all my stuff and I went backpacking in Southeast Asia to find myself. eventually I did, I would say it took a while, but then, yeah, backpacking was actually really, it was really cool. I always loved traveling before that as well, but on my backtrack.

backpacking trip, I just, I didn't want to go home. So, um, I wanted to figure out how to keep traveling and how to make money online. And I eventually found podcast management as a way to do that. So, um, this is, you know, many years ago, way pre COVID and everything. So there were not that many podcasts managers out there yet. I think I had like pretty good timing now, you know, looking back.

so yeah, I found some clients, did freelance podcast management work for them. And from there, I actually grew my own agency. So, starting, starting to build a team around myself, which was, even better. Like I love working in a team. I could do the things that I'm good at a little bit more than, you know, just like doing, the editing and writing and all of the things that podcast managers do.

yeah, so turn into an agency. And then a few years ago, I still have my agency. I started working with cashflow podcasting as a podcast coach. So I helped, their clients launch their podcasts, basically, and also work with some existing clients to grow their show as well. So that's how I started super part time next to my agency. because I wanted to see how it is to work in a larger team and larger organization.

Sophie (03:00) See you.

Anne (03:04) I mean, slightly. And I was like, you know, I think I was like 26 years old at the time. was like, I've always worked for myself. You know, I kind of want to see how, how other businesses work. So I was like, yeah, let's just, let's just do that part time. And it was so fun. I really enjoyed it. So yeah, I just basically worked my way up from podcast coach to marketing director to CEO now of Cashflow Podcasting.

Sophie (03:16) Interesting,

Thank

Incredible. Amazing. So you kind of live, podcasting. Amazing. And I know at some point along the line, were doing digital nomads life as well, weren't you? So tell me a little bit more about that and how you managed to incorporate your work with that as well.

Anne (03:36) Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it was challenging at times, especially at the start, because like I said, I was backpacking and on my backpacking trip, was like, okay, I just kind of want to keep going. I don't want to go home. So I started looking for freelance clients when I was in Southeast Asia, but I was in a community and looking for clients in the United States. So it was like opposite sides of the world. So also time zones were really challenging.

And it was really difficult to balance that to be responsive for especially new clients and getting the clients to sign up. And then not overworking. I remember the first few months or maybe even year or longer of trying to start my freelance business. I barely slept because I was like, had all these ideas and then I couldn't sleep because of it because I was so excited. And then when I woke up,

I did like when I did fall asleep and then woke up, I was like, I got to check my email. Maybe, you know, like new clients emailed me. So there was a lot of excitement and a lot of work and like the time zones actually work not in my favor. but yeah, I, I kept going and I did like a few weeks, I think in one place and then moved on. And throughout my Nomad life, I just slowed down more and more and more. Like I went from a like.

Sophie (04:56) Yeah.

Anne (05:11) a week or two in one place to a month in one place, two months to three months. And now I am fully settled in Spain. know, I don't want to say not going anywhere because, never say never, right? I don't know if I am going to live here literally forever, but for a long time, for sure. And I'm still taking trips, but I'm just coming, coming back to Spain.

Sophie (05:20) Yeah.

Yeah, you have a base, right? And I completely resonate with that. feel like I'm in the process of slowing down. It's been in the process of like the past like year, I would say. At first, I was traveling a lot. no, at first I moved to Bali and I was actually stable in Bali. But then when I left Bali, I would say my true nomad life started when I left Bali. I was moving every couple of weeks and it's like so fast paced. You just can't even keep yourself up.

Whereas now I'm like, oh, the minimum that I want to be somewhere is like three months. Like I can't even bear the thought of even moving. I'm in Thailand at the moment and I think I'm going to be here six, maybe even nine, 12 months. Like I really don't want to move right now. And obviously like you told me before we got on the call, you've got a dog now. So you're kind of, I feel like when you get an animal.

you're a little bit more stable. I mean, you're in Europe, so you can move around. Whereas if you get an animal in Asia, for example, it's so hard to move around, but it really like stables you and grounds you. So I think it's nice because sometimes you need that. You need that stability, especially if you're running a business or you've got a really high pressure job, like you do kind of need some stability. So going back to what you saying around, coming up with ideas all of the time, like I can also resonate with that. Like I was always so

Anne (06:30) Yeah.

Sophie (06:49) I've got so much energy, so many ideas for like businesses and stuff, but unless you're in one place to actually be able to execute those things, I think it can be really hard and you can get caught off track a lot.

Anne (07:00) Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I don't regret it, you know, I think it was such a cool time, but I wouldn't want to do it again, because now I'm like, yeah, no, the stability is really good.

Sophie (07:10) Yeah,

think, yeah, you always kind of look at it from what you don't have, right? And then actually, if you found spirit and you're really comfortable with your life, like that's amazing. Like as long as you feel happy where you are, I think that's all you can really, really ask for. So nice, nice to hear your journey. Cause I feel like I'm kind of coming to the point where you're at where I'm like, okay, I want a base now. And then from there I can go and travel. But it's also great to hear how you've been able to.

go from freelancing into actually working in a company as well. So how has that transitioned? Because obviously if you've gone from freelancing, I know you've worked your way up in the company now and you're now CEO, but how did that transition, if you'd always worked for yourself, did you have to work for any kind of like mindset blocks that were holding you back in that terms or was it quite smooth?

Anne (07:57) Yeah, I was a little bit concerned about this too, actually. When I started working for Casual Podcasting, was like, you know how, like all of a sudden I have a boss. I was like, how is this going to be? But it was actually really easy because I started working with the founder of Casual Podcasting, Ben Kruger, and he is such a chill guy. You know, it was so easy to work with him and he gave me so much freedom. He gives everyone a lot of freedom. That was just...

Sophie (08:04) like, all of a sudden, I have a ball. Yeah.

Anne (08:27) It was also, Casper podcasting was started when Ben was nomading. think he was in the Philippines, if I'm not mistaken, when he started a company, I want to say 13 years ago. So a long time ago. but the whole idea of the company was that it is really, you know, freedom is important. Everyone just does what they're good at. And there's not many, you know, strict rules or like lots of meetings or anything. It's like.

supposed to be a chill company. And when I came into the company, that was definitely the case where I got a lot of freedom. And what I really loved about working with Ben is that he immediately also asked my opinion on things. I felt that he really valued my thoughts and my opinions and my experience.

Sophie (09:04) one is that he also has my opinion on things.

Anne (09:14) Even though I was super young and I didn't have, you know, I haven't had experience working for myself, but not for other people. But he was like, okay, like I can see what you're good at. I can see what experience you do have. And he really, he really valued that. So that was actually really cool. I didn't, I didn't really have any of those difficult moments where it's like, ⁓ I have a boss and all of a sudden I have to do what he says. Like that, that's just not how the company culture is. So yeah, it was, it was actually.

Sophie (09:21) you

Thank you.

just not the company.

Anne (09:42) surprisingly easy.

Sophie (09:43) Yeah, because it's interesting to hear it that way round. Like I've heard so many stories of obviously like people working in employment and then going into self-employment, but it's very interesting to hear the other side. And I think that's really lovely actually, like that you was able to transfer all of the skills that you had in your freelance work into a company where you've just got other opportunities to learn, to grow, to work with people. said like you like working with teams. So I think that that's a really nice.

way to look at it, but you still have that level of freedom, which is really nice. And it just goes to show that there are companies out there that are able to offer that freedom, which is reassuring to hear, I think for many people who decide that maybe freelancing or running a business isn't necessary for them, but they still want to keep that level of flexibility. So I love that. That's really cool. And tell us a bit more about podcasting then. So obviously podcasting has been around for a while.

blown up over the past few years, I feel like, and so many new podcasts have started. Where did it kind of like, how did it begin? Because I don't know much about the history of podcasting and I'm going to make an assumption that you probably do. But like, tell us a bit more about podcasting and like how it's kind of grown and exploded into what it is today.

Anne (10:54) Yeah, well, I know a little bit about the history of podcasting because it's actually been around for a long time. Like I think it's about 25 years since podcasting was kind of, you know, invented. the whole thing that podcasting was is that there's an RSS feed that refreshes. So every time you post a new episode, people can find that new episode on the same feed. And that is still actually how podcasts work.

So the tech behind podcasts has actually not changed, which also means has some downsides as well, because we don't have that much data about our listeners, for example. But yeah, tech is still the same. to start off podcasting, was, think, a really, you know, like early adapters were more like a little bit like nerdy people, I would say. And then just before COVID, like a few years before COVID, it was really on the rise.

Sophie (11:26) So I'm not saying it's not because we don't have that much data, but I would want to listen first for example. So I still was paying, but then I mentioned a different story. One of the things that I think, I think, you know, like, it was more like, I'm not doing anything wrong.

Anne (11:49) to also as business owners have a podcast or, you know, to start podcasts to grow an audience. And it was back then, it was relatively easy because there were not that many podcasts out there, but there were more and more listeners. Like it was gaining more popularity that way. then COVID, COVID was the thing that really made it explode when all of a sudden everyone had time on their hands and couldn't leave their house. every, like, I mean, everyone was like, let's start a podcast.

Sophie (11:57) Thank

Yeah.

Anne (12:16) So yeah, that was the big, big boom. And a lot of those

podcasts are also not around anymore because, know, back then a lot of people had time. And a lot of these podcasts were all such as hobby podcasts. then after, you know, after a while people got busy again and a lot of these podcasts disappeared. yeah, also a lot of business owners still have the podcast that they started back then and just, you know, tweaked it, improved it.

Sophie (12:35) Yeah, also a lot of business owners still have the book out that they started back then, and just, you know, took it and approved

it. I mean, it's working well.

Anne (12:42) And it's working well for their business because, know, it's

like five years, yeah, five years later. ⁓ so some of these podcasts have actually grown significantly and are like really good audience builders now.

Sophie (12:47) Thank you.

Yeah, I think it's a great way to build relationships with people, I think, and get people get to know you and build that trust and credibility with your audience, because ultimately, it's long form content. So it can really help you. Well, for me personally, I thought that people get to know me better before maybe they come and work with me. And they can start understanding a little bit more about me because my personality can come across in this way rather than me just creating short form.

videos which sometimes you want to get so much information out in those short form videos that you don't necessarily show your full personality. For me podcasting is a really good way to be able to show personality and for me personally like I've always gained loads of my information from podcasts. I feel like I educate myself through podcasts because I don't learn in the traditional way like I don't learn by sitting in front of a laptop and someone sharing.

knowledge with me. Like I'm either like I absorb by listening to other people and then implementing myself or I learn by doing. So for me, podcast is like the perfect way, like the perfect learning tool, which is why I then felt like I wanted to integrate into my business and use it as a way to build trust with people and get them to know me and understand me and what I'm all about. Because it's way easier for me to sit and have a conversation like this than it is for me to sit and record two seconds.

clips of my day and then put it all together into like an Instagram real or a TikTok or something. So why do you think it is such a good tool for business owners and like, and what kind of businesses would you recommend use it?

Anne (14:28) Yeah, no, think you hit the nail on the head. think it's, it's that trust builder, right? It is absolutely a trust builder. So to answer your question for what businesses is podcasting, like the, the channel to go for, I would say businesses where you need a lot of trust for people to sign on to work with you. So at Cashflow Podcasting, we work a lot with financial advisors or coaches with a high ticket offer, like executive coaches, for example.

Sophie (14:32) Yeah

for people to decide on a work with you. So, I've got to say we work a lot with financial advisors.

Anne (14:57) and startup founders as well, because they need to establish their thought leadership in new industries. So in all of those cases, trust is super, super important. and it's just such an credibility booster as well, as well. Right. So the cool thing about podcasting is you see the best results or like the most of what's possible. That say in six to months after launching your podcast and have consistently releasing content, but.

just launching a podcast and doing it well, that's already a credibility boost right away. Like literally episode one could be that people are like, she has a podcast now, cool, okay. So, you know, that's legit if you do it well. So that's so cool, but it is exactly like you said, it is that trust builder through long form content. And you're also just having your platform to see what you wanna say, right? I think especially,

when you have like services in your business, I think it's really important and you, usually have a lot of information that you want to share and a lot of information that people need to know before they can be sold on your service. So the podcast is perfect to do that in a really like soft selling way. So not really Sally, but like a salesy, but like very soft way. And then people come on a sales call with you and for our clients, like

people come on sales calls sold, you know, they've already sold themselves by listening to so many podcast episodes and they come on a call and they're like, okay, well, I know you, I know your service, I know what you do.

Sophie (16:33) Yeah, it is. It definitely warms people up, doesn't it? It takes them from like a cold lead, which maybe they might have been if they came into your world somewhere. And then they get warmed up by listening to you through these podcasts. I think that's really, it's a really important tool, I feel like, like, especially if you are a service business owner to be able to put out your content in some kind of long form in this way to build that trust. So I love that.

And you mentioned if you do it well. I love that you say that because I mean, I know that I'm not perfect with my podcast, for example, like I'm very relaxed with it. I don't, I'm not an editor. I don't have the funds at the moment to invest in like somebody as much as I would love somebody to do it. But equally I've learned the skills of, I know I use a platform like Riverside, for example, to be able to get better quality.

content that I wouldn't be able to necessarily get from like Zoom recordings, which is how I started the audio I invested in a mic so that I've got better audio and tell me a bit more about like what you consider a good podcast versus like not a great podcast.

Anne (17:40) No, absolutely. think

production quality is important, which doesn't mean that you definitely need to work with professional audio engineers. I think for some businesses, yes, it makes sense and it is important. For other businesses, not as important, but you want to make sure that the content is easy to consume. So if you can do that by yourself with software without professional editing, that's fine, I think.

Sophie (17:49) have audio engineering professional audio engineers. think for some businesses, yes, it makes sense, but it's important for more businesses, not as important, but you want to make sure that the content is easy to consume. So if you can do that by yourself with software, you know, without a professional editing, that's fine, I think.

Anne (18:08) ⁓ but something that is probably the most important part is being strategic about the content that you produce and how

Sophie (18:08) But something that is probably the most important part is being strategic about the content that you produce.

how you, how you use your podcast in your business. That's non-negotiable. Like you just have to have a plan for that. And we sometimes get clients from cultural podcasting, where they have a podcast in like one side and then they have their business that's

Anne (18:18) you, ⁓ how you use your podcast in your business. That's a non-negotiable, like you just have to have a plan for that. ⁓ and we sometimes get clients, for cashflow podcasting where they have a podcast in like one side and then they have their business that's like,

slightly related, but like not exactly. If your goal is to actually have a positive return on investment for your podcast, then that's

Sophie (18:37) like slightly related, but not exactly. If your goal is to actually have a positive return on investment for your podcast, then.

Anne (18:47) not going to work. Right. If you want new clients through your podcast, you need to talk to exactly the same target audience that your offer is for. You need to find out what they need to hear. So what is your central message? And that doesn't mean that you need to be salesy at all.

Sophie (18:47) That's not gonna work, right? If you want a new client for your podcast, you need to talk to them.

Anne (19:02) But what is your central message? Like what do they need to know when they walk away from listening to an episode? And like, how do you fit it in all the other things that you do to market your business? So you want to make sure that you have, that all the pieces fit together, that it's not just a separate podcast from all the other things that you do.

Sophie (19:21) Yeah, no, I agree.

I actually transitioned this podcast. So it previously was called the Commerce Club podcast because my old business model was very much focused around like e-commerce founders, e-commerce support, because that was what people were looking for throughout the pandemic, just after the pandemic over the past three or four years. Naturally, the market has shifted and e-commerce was no longer as relevant and my business no longer, my personal life no longer aligned with my business and I wasn't resonating with it anymore. So I'm now transitioning my business to all around like...

being free online business, allowing yourself to have that dream life that you want to achieve and build a business that helps you create that. So this is now more around like inspiring stories of the person that I would like necessarily to target with my online courses, with my services, for example. So I can totally understand, because I've seen a lot where people have podcasts, which is so unrelated to their business. And it's like, okay, well, what's the goal here? Like, how do you want to get them to then transfer?

over and I mean some people just do it for fun which is also fine like I also love just talking so like I would just do it for fun but I think the other thing is that like it's very hard to maintain right like it's very hard to keep it up unless you are in like one location for me that that was a big problem like when I was traveling full-time I actually stopped doing my podcast because

I just didn't have the capacity to do it and like find outreach to the guests and all of that. So what was like the ideal structure for a podcast for a business? Like is it to release an episode every week? Is it to release them more regularly monthly? Like what would you say is like the ideal cadence to release episodes?

Anne (21:04) say it depends a little bit. know, like industry best practice is weekly episodes. Weekly episodes is awesome because it gets you a lot of content that you

can then also repurpose and you stay top of mind really easily. It's not always possible, right? Like you said, if you're traveling or, you know, if you're busy, like some, some businesses, they really have like, they have times in a year where it's just so crazy busy. Like I said, we work with a lot of financial advisors and wealth managers.

Sophie (21:27) So, please do.

Anne (21:32) and tag season, forget it. They just cannot record new content, which is fine. You just have to make sure to prepare for that. But if you're not sure if weekly is going to work for you, if that feels very ambitious, and it is quite ambitious to be fair, then every other week.

That's still fine. can still stay top of mind and you can increase as you go. if you see, okay, you know what, actually, have this workflow all under control now. We can do weekly. And also just wanted to mention that it doesn't mean that you actually have to record weekly or that you have to record every other week. I know Sophie, you also do that. Like you record a bunch of episodes in one day and you're done for a while. ⁓ you can work ahead. Like that's the cool thing about podcasting. It's not live.

Sophie (22:13) Yeah.

Anne (22:19) And you can really batch record that content. And I would highly, highly recommend it, especially as business owners with a podcast. Like you don't want to get super busy and then have to skip an episode because of that. Because, you know, in this whole trust building thing that we do with podcasting, consistency is important. If you skip an episode, it's not the end of the world, but it's not, it's not helping the trust building. You know what I mean?

Sophie (22:37) is important. If you see the autism, it's not the end of the world, but it's not.

Anne (22:47) Like

if you can, if you tell people you're going to show up every week or every other week and you follow through, that's a trust builder. So like with the podcast, there's a lot of different things that you can do. Like the content itself needs to be a trust builder. Consistency needs to be a trust builder. Ideally, you know, production quality is a trust builder where people can immediately see this is a serious podcast. You know, this is legit. This is professional. And you know, like there's

different levels, especially for production quality that you can work with. But all of those things together are the trust builder. you know, the consistency is really difficult, but it is also really important.

Sophie (23:27) Yeah, I agree. I agree. And I definitely am guilty of not being always consistent with it because it's just, it's gone through so many different lives. I feel like my podcast and my business has been transforming. So at the same time as my business transforming, the podcast has also transformed. So sometimes I haven't felt like I've been able to show up for the podcast, but now I actually, going back what you said about batch creation, I've batch created up until at least June at the moment. So, and we're still outreaching and doing more guests podcasting. So I'm really excited about it.

Anne (23:35) Thank

Sophie (23:56) The new direction I'm taking it in as well. I'm loving these conversations because it's all with like really like-minded people that also have the goal of freedom in their life. So I love it. It's so much more fluid and functional than it was when it was all about e-commerce. But one thing I would say I get very self-conscious about with this podcast is that it's all done online recording. Have you got any kind of evidence or experiences to suggest what style of podcasts work?

best? Like, is it better when you have somebody in a studio or is it okay when it's online by Riverside or something like this?

Anne (24:34) I'd say it really depends on your goals with the podcast. If your goal with the podcast is building an audience of millions, you know, like become a famous podcaster. I mean, most famous podcasters nowadays, they record in a studio, they record in person, super high production quality. And it then also really depends what you talk about because if the content that you're selling is more like about

Sophie (24:37) Yeah.

Anne (25:00) you and your personality, so you're like more of like an influencer, even more important that the production quality is on point. If your goal with the podcast is you're a business owner and you want new clients in your business, you want to sell your services, you don't need millions of listeners. You know, you need a few hundred, maybe even, even dozens is fine because you just need to reach the right people, read the right message.

Like most, service-based businesses, cannot handle like a hundred new clients this month. know like at Cashflow Podcast, even though we have like quite a significant team, we couldn't handle that. like, please don't come with a hundred new clients this month. So you don't need millions and millions of downloads of, of listens for each episode. You just need to find the right people. So in that case, like the, it's more common.

Sophie (25:35) as well.

Yeah.

Anne (25:56) than to have remote recordings like this, because it is very, very costly to go to a studio every time, be in person with people. It's often just for time restraints, it's just like literally impossible. But then also for call, like it makes the podcast more of a media production than a marketing channel. So if the podcast itself is a media production and that is the thing that you're selling, yes.

Sophie (26:01) to you.

Yeah.

Anne (26:23) probably important if it's a marketing channel for your business. It needs to work, you know, like the numbers need to work, the time investment needs to work. And usually it doesn't work for in-person recordings in a studio.

Sophie (26:33) usually it doesn't work for impressive in the studio. Yeah,

no, I agree. I've always wanted to try and do it in a studio, just to test it out and see, but at the same time I'm like, well, I don't think that's not my goal. My goal isn't to this really aesthetically pleasing podcast, actually it's to provide really high quality conversations with people.

So it doesn't necessarily matter so much, but I think like you say, it's become this massive media production. It makes you feel like when you're recording online, that it's not going to be as adequate as maybe it would be if you're in a studio. But I think actually as long as the conversation and the quality of the conversation is good, it doesn't necessarily matter because I have seen some podcasts that are recorded in studios and I'm like, well, I don't even care what you're talking about because this interview actually doesn't have a lot of like purpose or structure. So.

I try to just make it more so that the conversation flows rather than aesthetically pleasing somebody. Yeah. also think it's very easy for us to compare ourselves with the larger of a CEO. Yeah, true. We also don't forget like this Steven Barnett, he's like years into his podcast. Like is like year one or year two of his podcast. I don't know how old his podcast is, like 10 years maybe, five years? don't know. Like he's been bad for a while.

Anne (27:21) Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And I also think it's very easy for us to compare ourselves with like diary of a CEO, you know, like the really big podcast, but also don't forget like this Stephen Bartlett, he's like years into his podcast. Like this is not year one or year two of his podcast. This is, I don't know how old his podcast is, but like 10 years, maybe five years. I don't know. Like he's been at it for a long time

and he has a whole company that he built around it.

Sophie (27:51) Thank

Anne (27:54) And then he also has a sponsorship and things. So his podcast is the product is the business. And it makes a lot of sense for him because he also, he didn't start like this, right? So when you're starting a podcast, you cannot compare yourself with a podcast like this.

Sophie (28:05) Yeah.

Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. And what you just said there around like his podcast is the business. Obviously some people, some people's podcast is their business. Like they do monetize. So how would you say like is the best way to monetize a podcast? And not that you necessarily want to get it to obviously dire real CEO levels where you're creating a whole business around it. But like some people would like to earn money from this. Like if you're creating content in an ideal world, it's giving you something back either through your service business or your whatever it is that you're selling.

or you're monetizing the podcast itself. So what's the best way to monetize a podcast, would you say?

Anne (28:46) In my experience, 100 % selling your own services. So using your podcast as a marketing channel is the, I would say probably easiest way and most long-term way to actually make money from your podcast because it helps your brand building, right? It helps your brand if the podcast just fully, fully 100 % aligns with it. And then

Sophie (28:49) Mm.

Thanks

Anne (29:10) selling your own services, it's the most profitable way. And usually the way that makes the most sense for business owners to monetize their podcast. So, also if you're thinking about starting a podcast and starting a business, but not sure where to start, I would usually recommend to start the business first, find out your offer, you know, have a few clients, make sure that it works and then start a podcast. If you want to be very efficient with it.

If time is not an issue and you you can take more time to figure it out, then you can use the podcast as more like a market research tool. But usually I would recommend figure out your offer first, figure out your messaging, your brand, all the little pieces, and then start the podcast because then you'll know what to talk about before then you don't know. So it takes a lot of time then to figure out what to talk about.

Sophie (29:53) Thank you.

Anne (30:05) And the cool thing about podcasting is it's evergreen content. So if you do it well from, from the start, that means that every episode is a little asset that you have for your business because it can work for your business forever. Now, I think many podcasters, you know, like you and me, Sophie, like we started a podcast and it changes, which is totally fine as well. But my old episodes on my podcast, they're not valuable anymore now because it's not like what I do.

so I don't want to say they're like wasted time, but if you can make sure that everything aligns with your business and your offer from the start, that means that you're building those assets from the start. And every episode really helps you towards goals of like getting new clients, growing your business and stuff like that.

Sophie (30:52) Yeah, for sure. It totally makes sense. And how would you say like, in terms of what's the most important thing in terms of actually getting people to listen? Like, obviously, you can have the high production quality, you can have the great conversations, but people need to find it. It needs to be on the right platforms, getting in front of the right people, like you said earlier, like, what's the what's the most important part there? Because my understanding would be that it's like

SEO, right? Like understanding like the key words that people are searching for. Am I correct in thinking that or is there like something else that that would be more important than that?

Anne (31:28) say yes SEO is super important, but in the end,

know, within podcasting apps, it's practically impossible to be found. you know, like people, unless people search for certain keywords, then yes, you know, they might find your podcast, but other than that, like there's not really a way for people to just organically find you without actually looking for your topic. so

In general, I would say, yes, keep SEO in mind for especially podcast ads. But then besides that, you want to treat it as any other content piece. So you just basically need to market your podcast like you would market anything else. So you need to make sure that it gets in front of people. There's a million ways to do it. There's paid traffic that you can send to your podcast. There is like...

Call email that you can send to your podcast. There's like all the different things, but I think in general it's really important to see your podcast as part of your overall marketing for your business. So that means that maybe it's not that important that people find the podcast directly. Maybe it's more important that they find something else and then they get introduced to the podcast. So I would say know where the podcast fits in your marketing funnel.

Sophie (32:22) detail.

So that means that maybe it's not that important that people find the blood chemist directly. Maybe it's the quick version that they find something else, then that introduced the blood chemist.

Anne (32:49) Um, and then see what's top, top of funnel, how people find you lead generation. Usually the podcast I would say is usually a little bit more in the middle. So yeah, some people will find a podcast directly, but in my experience, most people will find you and your business in another way and then find a podcast. So that means you want to make sure that wherever people find you, is clear relatively early on that you have a podcast.

Sophie (33:11) Yeah.

Anne (33:19) So on LinkedIn, I'm a podcaster and this is the name of my podcast and you know, potentially here's a link. In your email newsletters, here's a link to the podcast. If you have a welcome sequence, when people sign up for a lead magnet, introduce the podcast. Like it needs to be absolutely everywhere on your website. You want your podcast episodes on your website, you know, so you want to make sure it's absolutely everywhere that people cannot miss it because usually they would come out, come.

Sophie (33:25) Thank

Anne (33:47) into your world in a different way, but then you want them to listen to the podcast to be nurtured and then from the podcast start to work with you.

Sophie (33:57) Definitely, definitely. think I can definitely see that it's middle funnel. Like people would maybe find me through social media and then click through to my podcast or my podcast will be shared by somebody on social media and then they find me through that person, go on my social media and then click through to my podcast. So definitely would agree with that. Like in the past, I think I initially went into it with the concepts of

Anne (34:14) Mm-hmm.

Sophie (34:21) Well, could it be top of funnel because people surely will find you're on a podcasting platform by very quickly realized that no, that's not how it necessarily works. Like you say, you have to market to podcasts and get people directed to that traffic. And there's so many different ways to do that. Like you said. Yeah.

Anne (34:34) you

Yeah,

exactly. Yeah. And I would say, you know, if you, because it's not impossible to use your podcast, top of funnel, right? But it is, the question is, does it make the most sense? but if you do want to use it, top of funnel as a lead generation, channel, one of the best ways to get people to know about your podcast is actually because a lot of people's podcasts, because that's how you can reach people where they're at, like,

Sophie (34:58) Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Anne (35:04) while listening to a podcast. it's relatively easy to then, I mean, you want to make sure that the call to action from that guest appearance is listen to my podcast. So sending them over within the same app to your podcast is usually relatively easy. And it's definitely podcast listeners. People are interested in the topic because that's how they found this episode or that's why they're listening in the first place. So just a little tip. Like if you do, if you do want to go that way then.

Sophie (35:09) you

I agree with you. I agree with you for sure. Like it's certainly something that's on my radar for this year is to get more guests, guesting on other people's. So yeah, no, I fully agree with that strategy. And what's one of the biggest mistakes that you see podcasters make then that can make or break their success with podcasting?

Anne (35:32) That's probably something to explore.

I would definitely say the strategy piece. think a lot of podcasters, they, um, you know, don't get me wrong. I think you have to start where you're at. So if you don't have the funds at the moment or the marketing budget to hire a professional, um, production company, and you just have to bootstrap it, it can still look and sound really good. Um, and I think that is important. It's just, I think you have to invest either time or money to figure it out.

So I think quality is important, but then also being strategic, what we already said, right? Like where does it fit into your business? Where does it fit into your marketing channel? It just needs to be fully aligned to get the best results. So yeah, I think that is something that easily kind of goes wrong because a lot of people also immediately, okay, monetizing a podcast, I need sponsors. And I would say very often that could be like kind of like a bonus, like a cherry on top.

Sophie (36:39) Yeah.

Anne (36:48) way to monetize a podcast. But if you have a business and you have capacity for new clients, then sell out that first before you go after any sponsors, because you know, sponsors, sounds so easy, like, you just record like a 30 second clip for this, for this company and they pay you. But there's a lot more that goes into it. There's negotiations, contracts, know, content approvals, there's communication, there's

Sophie (36:59) because it's not so easy.

Anne (37:15) so much that goes into sponsorships that I would say as a business owner, it often might not be worth it, especially if you

have to go out and do the outreach and start those conversations. Again, I think it's different if the podcast is your product. It's not impossible to do that, but as a business owner, it just makes more sense to sell your own stuff.

Sophie (37:36) Yeah, no, I fully agree. think if you can, and actually if your subject is about your business, it should be very transferable and you should be able to make as much money as you would like to make through that method. And like you say, Cherry on Top would be the sponsors. And I remember listening to a podcast, I can't remember whose podcast it was actually, but I was listening to an episode a couple of years ago now and she was saying that when she started her podcast,

Her main goal was to get sponsored, to get like somebody managing the podcast. And then she very quickly realized it was just like completely unrealistic. And actually she needed to go back to basics and then work her way towards that goal. And now she's, I'm sure she's probably there at this point, she's been podcasting for a few years now, but yeah, it's an interesting one. Cause I'd say that that's naturally where your brain goes. If you think about monetizing the podcast, you don't always think about,

is actually also could be a sales, like part of my sales process. So it is like you say, just getting really strategic of like, how are you directing that traffic? Yeah, I think.

Anne (38:33) Yeah.

Yeah, because, know, building an audience from scratch

and making the podcast itself the product, it takes a lot of time and effort that you have to put into it, like upfront and kind of like the cold hard truth that no one wants to hear. But especially when you start your podcast, no one really cares about you as a host. You know, no one knows you and no one cares about you.

Sophie (38:44) Yeah.

Anne (39:01) So your

content, like the topic needs to be really interesting because that's why people will listen to you. no, no one will listen to the big and show because no one knows me. No one cares about me. But if my topic is, you know, about podcasting or like you do Sophia really interesting conversations about a certain topic, that's like quite niche. Then yeah, people start listening to that and then they get to know you as a host. And then, you know, eventually people start caring about you, but

Sophie (39:15) Thank

sort of topic that's quite niche that people start listening to them.

you

Anne (39:29) the start, like no one does. So that makes it tricky.

Sophie (39:32) Yeah, exactly. It

does. It does. Yeah, it's all about just a bit of a time thing really, isn't it? Like consistency time, getting as many people to listen to your stuff as possible and then it can kind of like, you can take it in some different directions from there. But the main thing would be get strategic, get your SEO on point and make sure that your quality

of the actual content that you're producing, not necessarily the production quality, but like the actual content is good and people want to listen to it. And then hopefully you should be able to monetize it, your services, your products, whatever from there. So yeah, really good advice. Just before we close then, you got like one top tip? You might have already said it because we've kind of covered like the strategy piece and I feel like it's going to be that, but is there one top tip for someone that wants to start a podcast that would benefit their business?

Anne (40:21) Well, I would first of all say, um, I think my top tip is if you have a service based business and it requires a lot of trust from the person you work with, then you need a podcast. think that is actually my top tip. So it's not as special, not really about like starting a podcast, but just like step zero. If this is like, if this is your business, you know, that's like coach, um, consultant mentor, um, you need a podcast. That's it.

Sophie (40:22) First of all, I think my team is the most purpose-based business. It requires people to trust from the person you work with when you get a podcast. I think that is actually my top tip. it's not a special thing about starting a podcast or just like step zero. If this is your business, know, that's close.

Yeah.

Period. You need a podcast. I love that though. Like I agree. think if you, if you enjoy talking, if you enjoy having conversations, if that is a way that you can really fully express yourself and get your message across, why not? Like even if it's just monthly or like just for your audience, for example, I think it's really important because it does build that trust and credibility. I think it's the fastest way, honestly.

Anne (40:52) That's it. You need one.

Sophie (41:15) to build that trusted credibility with an audience. So yeah, great tip there. And just finally, before we go, I am just throwing in this question, but we spoke a little bit about freedom at the beginning. Like what does freedom mean to you? Because obviously everything I'm doing now is all around like helping people create more freedom in their life through online business. I'd love to hear like, what is freedom? What does that actually look like for you? Because it looks so different for everybody.

Anne (41:17) Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and it has changed a lot for me, right? before, because freedom is probably the most important value for me. You know, it's so important, it's always been. But now what it looks like is that I can work when I want in my day, where I want. So at the moment, that is just working from home with my dog. And before that meant, you know, traveling and working from cool places.

Sophie (41:46) couple.

Anne (42:00) But now it's just like literally being able to work from home, have my dog here right next to me. She's just waking up by the way. That is freedom right now. And that I can choose to start an hour earlier, an hour later, or work half a day when I'm super tired and I just cannot deal with stuff. That is freedom for me.

Sophie (42:20) Yeah, I love that. That's very relatable, I think. And I like to ask that now because I think everyone has a different interpretation of what freedom looks like. But for so many people, I feel like that is exactly what they want. They just want that flexibility in their day to be able to work in the comfort of their own home with their pets. And like you say, I love what you say there around like be able to take a day off when you need to, if you're tired and you don't want to work all day. Don't force yourself. Why are we forcing ourselves? Because actually,

It's not good for us to force ourselves to do something that our body doesn't want to do. love that great, great advice there. And anyone that wants to connect with you further, where can they find you?

Anne (42:59) Yeah, go to cashflowpodcasting.com and you can also find me on LinkedIn. I'm sure Sophie can drop a little link in the show notes. So yeah, go check it out there.

Sophie (43:02) for my emailing again. I'm sure something will come up on link in the show notes. So yeah, good luck with

that. For sure. Thank you so much. That was a really interesting conversation. I love podcasting, so this has gave me lot of good tips there as well. So thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining me for this conversation.